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Starting Issue - Bad CPS?


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20 replies to this topic

#1 Bumzag

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 04:22 PM

Hey guys, was searching through the forums trying to find someone who went through the same issue I'm having which is trouble starting the car. If it's completely level, I have turn it over and feed it gas non-stop until it lights up. If I don't feed it gas, the starter just keeps going with no result. If the car is on an incline, that is the engine being elevated and the rear of the car lower, it starts up almost no problem, usually without having to feed it gas. About 2 out of 3 times that I start the car I can usually smell gas very strongly. As far as I know there's no issue with the fuel pump as once it is running, it runs without issue, no hiccups, no hesitations, although the lines/filter are rusted and will be replaced soon.

 

I found this thread: http://www.regalgs.o...haft +position¬†

 

Kryptononly2 was having the same issue and suggested it may be the CPS. I then stumbled upon this article: http://www.1aauto.co...sensor-symptomsMy car is misfiring (cylinder 2 mostly, no SES code). It's not idling rough, although there MIGHT be decreased gas mileage, haven't really noticed. However a lot of what I've read regarding a bad CPS suggests that if the CPS was bad, it would be stalling a lot, which is isn't, and hasn't ever.

 

In that thread Marchi1 suggested shoving a paperclip into the connector of the fuel pump resistor. Can anyone shed some light on this and explain what might be going on?

 

 


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#2 scottydoggs98

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 04:44 PM

for starters, what engine you have?  

 

id start with a tb cleaning no matter na or sc. 

 

if n/a id think you got a bad fpr maybe. pull its vac line off and if gas comes out the line, or smells of gas thats a bad fpr.


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#3 Bumzag

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 04:49 PM

I have the 3.8L SC'd. Probably should have mentioned, the TB is new and thoroughly cleaned, new IAC and MAF as well. There's a thread out there that I started where I was chasing the issue, and it quickly became about how I had a TB from a '96 regal. I bought a TB from someone on another 3800 forum. When I bought it and installed it I cleaned it thoroughly as it was caked in carbon. After installing it was idling/running incredibly rough and even stalled once, which turned out to be a MAF issue. After that was replaced, it turned went back to normal. In other words I replaced the MAF, IAC and TB only to go full circle. Starting issue persists


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#4 scottydoggs98

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 05:08 PM

ah, i remember you. 

 

ever pull the vac line off the fpr? they can go bad on a l67 too. 

 

if your cars not randomly stalling as you drive i'd not be thinking crank sensor.   

 

and now you have the right maf for your year car right?  


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#5 Bumzag

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 05:47 PM

No, haven't done that. I had a hard enough time doing the TB >.<

Any chance you could spell it out for me real simple, in layman's terms? Can't say I even know where the FPR is. Worst case I can relay it to someone more capable than myself.

 

Any yes, brand new MAF. It wasn't that I had a MAF from the wrong year, but rather the previous TB/MAF was from a '96. The MAF was this fella:  http://www.cardone.c...&p=rock&jsn=456so when I bought and tried to install this sucker http://www.cardone.com/Products/Product-Detail?productId=8650015&p=rock&jsn=394 it just wasn't happening. 


Edited by Bumzag, 06 May 2016 - 05:49 PM.

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#6 scottydoggs98

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 09:08 PM

fpr, fuel pressure regulator. its the round thing with a vac line on it on the fuel rail.  has a vac line T a top it. lift the t up and off and see if it smells of gas. 

 

you can also plug the t to seal off the vac leak and try to start it, if the fpr is bad you'll see gas spurt out of it. 

 

if its bad you need a snap ring pliers to remove the snap ring, then wiggle it out. pop new one in and clip it in, all done, 10 minute job tops. 


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#7 dezldave961

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 09:14 PM

The fuel pump resistor can go bad, causing start/run issues by not enabling the pump to supply fuel.  The resistor is a (dumb) idea they had for putting the pump into low speed mode for low rpm situations, which almost no other car cares to do, and for good reason (add'l fail point).

 

Look up some of the old threads on here or ClubGP for the fixes you can apply to it.

 

Below are images showing where it may be on your car... (older cars had them behind the alternator on the firewall)

 

wb3006.jpg

 

There is a fix that can be done in the fuse box, or you can short the resistor's wiring back to itself to skip the resistor.


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#8 scottydoggs98

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 09:34 PM

pretty sure the high speed resistor went away after  00 did for the grand prix's any ways.  

 

yup, heres the pic of the relay with the tab bent out, worth a shot. read the fuse box map to make sure your messing with the right relay, thats a gp bix in the pic.

 

FuelResistorGP.jpg

 

when the resistor does fail, it will typically start and stall over and over and never stay running. as it turns the pump off. 


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#9 Bumzag

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 10:01 PM

Well it hasn't stalled because of the current issue. Like I said it will just crank non-stop if I'm not feeding gas, but no stalling issue. What's the best solution then, jumping the resistor with an insulated wire or bending out the tab on the fuel pump speed relay in the fuse box? Getting confusing messages here..


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#10 scottydoggs98

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 10:16 PM

check the pcv valve yet? maybe its clogged up. its under the flat black plate a top the supercharger.  keep in mind, pumping the gas pedal feeds no fuel, 

 

you turn the key to run and the injectors "prime" the engine aka a short spray of gas, the injectors dont start to give fuel till the engine starts. 

 

pumping the gas pedal only lets more air in the engine. 

 

now that im thinking about the gas smell, maybe you got a injector stuck open. i think that would flood the one cylinder and rob the rest of fuel causing a wet plug and the smell of gas, and the rest of the cylinders being dry pretty much. 

 

guy had a stuck injector and got a pic of it when the key was turned to run, it had a foot long spray of gas from it only.  (rail removed of course still hooked to the fuel lines) 


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#11 Bumzag

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 10:39 PM

I think I knew that by depressing the gas pedal it doesn't actually feed any fuel, at least it's been explained to me several times since this issue cropped up. Having said that, isn't it even more confusing that the car won't start unless the gas pedal is depressed? What's the prognosis on a stuck injector?

 

I'm fairly certain I replaced the PCV valve the week I bought (in August), but I'll check it out when I get home.


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#12 scottydoggs98

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 10:48 PM

try turning the key to run 3 times then crank it. to run for a 3 seconds, back off and back to run do that 3 times, this will prime the engine 3 times. and maybe it will fire right up. or you'll smell gas really strong is my guess. 

 

you can replace one injector if need be.  junk yard, ebay what have you. you just need to make sure its a injector for a l67. 


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#13 Wildcat

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 04:29 AM

Opening the throttle while trying to start is allowing more air in than normally would be present with just the IAC working it's magic. Maybe you have a too-much-fuel situation that's being helped with the open throttle?

Try pushing the throttle open and holding it there. In other words, don't pump it, just hold it. See if that changes anything in the way it acts.

 

On a carbureted engine that's how you clear it when it's flooded.

 

Good luck.

 

Paul


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#14 OhMyGS

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Posted 07 May 2016 - 03:13 PM

That's the same way you clear a flooded FI engine. 100% throttle signals the PCM to shut down the injectors and clear the flooding condition. This does not sound like a fuel pump resistor problem to me.
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#15 Bumzag

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 02:37 PM

Makes sense that it might be a stuck injector, no?


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#16 scottydoggs98

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 02:50 PM

really only one way to find out, pull the fuel rail with the injectors and plugs still hooked up,  then have some one turn the key to run while you watch the injectors. if one is stuck open it will spray like crazy from it. 

 

wear glasses in case you get sprayed in the eyes.  


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#17 Bumzag

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 05:47 PM

Hate to bring this up again but the issue persists.

I think I've narrowed it down to a few things: the rusted fuel lines/filter, the throttle body, or the fuel injectors.

Might be the lines/filter because they're rusted to shit.

Might be the TB because I recently had it replaced, because there was a TB from a 98 on it. The reason I think it's the TB is because the car won't startt unless I depress the gas pedal, and when it does start the car reeks of gas. Could it be the engine is being flooded with fuel, and because the TB valve isn't opening by default unless I press the gas pedal that fuel builds up? Could this be an issue with the TB cable? Any insight?
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#18 Bumzag

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 05:50 PM

So I fixed the starting issue, swapped out the TPS with a brand new, thought I already did that but it was a used TPS before. Problem is now it will go to 5000rpms and won't shift unless I let off the gas. It's also throwing P0122. Any advice?


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#19 scottydoggs98

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 01:03 PM

thats a tps code. cant believe this aint fixed up yet. 


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#20 Bumzag

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Posted 13 October 2018 - 06:17 PM

I've gone bald because of this problem. A new MAF and TPS fixed the starting problem, but as I said now it idles high in drive and won't shift past 1st unless I let off the gas, it'll just go to 5000tpms
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